Yay! look forward to reading your write up soon Kallie, maybe you can post it in this topic, for feedback on the play!

I agree totally about the symbolism....but I still don't think it was meant as an actual act of prayer.  I think subconsciously putting your hands together to your mouth in that gesture is quite a common thing to do when somebody is deep in thought. I know I do it...and it's years since I said a prayer!

Hello!  I'm new to the forum, but I just saw The Hard Problem yesterday.  I loved Damien as Hal in Being Human though (Oh, how I still miss Being Human.  And Damien had a task on his hands as I loved (love still!) Mitchell and the whole gang before his presence also) and saw him in Ripper Street before it vanished from the normal telly... Anyway... the play!  I saw it for the first time yesterday.

It is certainly an ideas-play and due to that I think it should be interesting to talk about!  So I hope you don't mind if I join in?!  I found the link to this thread via the forum's twitter so thought I'd come and join your interesting questionnaire and discussion! 

1. What three words would you use to describe Spike?

Intelligent, dogged, single-minded (well, maybe double minded... if you know what I mean! haha!)  I suppose I could have used the word persistent rather than dogged, but dogged came into my head first and then it seemed both apt and also made me laugh!!   

2. What would Spike's theme song be?

Surely Bach!?!  I think the thing I loved most about the play was the use of the Bach Preludes as scenes were changed!  Because Bach composed this music with mathematical and structural, architectural foundation.  I mean, you could find more modern composers who took this concept to even more extreme levels, but Bach is the most well known, and surely the first composer to compose in this way.  This music ought to therefore be without emotion, given how it was composed, and yet - just listen to it!  Is it?  Clearly not!  I also loved the lights that danced with the music, heightening this further.  Well, I think Bach fits perfectly with Spike's view of the world (although some may say it fitted with Hilary's!!)

The play also made me think about this song, because of how the song begins! 

3. Spike vs Hilary, where do you stand?

I think Spike is right in terms of his argument.  Although it begins as more than this, by the end of the play it felt more like an argument in the existence or otherwise of God which likely skews this thought even further towards Spike.  I found it interesting that the play itself didn't choose where it stood.  I felt like it wanted to stand with Hilary.... yet, by the end, well... it really doesn't...  Maybe even further than that.  Rather than fleshing out Hilary, I sort of felt like the story of Hilary's daughter took away from her argument as it gave an explanation for her beliefs: it was an event that clearly had deep impact on her beliefs about the world and understandably so, but it lessened her ability to seem objective.

4. The best thing about Spike is

b) His point of view

 Well, I found him right and I think scientists would agree.  

5. The worst thing about Spike is 

His self interest - he doesn't seem to care that much for people and at least when drunk shows a lack of empathy/compassion... not towards Hilary so much as towards the other ladies.  And he also displays an arrogance - why wouldn't any woman want to sleep with him?  His views are the right views and if anyone disagrees, they don't understand as well as him...

I don't know why just my answer here turned blue and bigger.  I feel like inadvertently the thread made me chastise Spike: naughty Spike - you're certainly lacking in altruism!!!  haha!  Although, I suppose we could deem his constant undressing an act of altruism for the audience?!  *giggle* *blush*

6. How do you feel about Spike by the end of the play?

As I said, it was an ideas-play.  I felt like the play was so concerned with the issues it was worried about that it never really let me in to feel a great deal for any of it's characters.  I agreed with and respected Spike intellectually in terms of his views here, but I felt little else towards him or anyone in the play really.

7. Rank Spike's likeability on a scale of 1 - 10

6

?

I actually found him a great deal more likeable than anyone else, though.  Probably Bo and then (though she's not there much) Julia would come next.  I found Hilary quite irritating although simultaneously interesting and relatively sympathetic.  

8. Complete this sentence:

Damien's portrayal of Spike is......  I can't do it in a word, but I thought he was memorable, particularly considering the fact that he didn't have the most massive of roles.  I hadn't realised before seeing it how it was really Hilary's story.  I guess it is pretty impressive that he seems like the second main character as I am not sure whether he definitely is in terms of stage-time... In any case even if he is, a lot is just Hilary alone of course.

Interesting the comments regarding "praying" by the minibar... I have to say, not having read or seen the play before and watching for the first time I didn't notice/think about the praying (but then I am not the quickest person.  I think I followed most of the play's intellectual arguments OK for example but when we first saw Cathy, immediately after her first scene with her Father the two ladies sat next to me whispered to each other that she was Hilary's daughter and at that point it hadn't even occurred to me!!  Haha !)

Anyway - back to that scene.  Well, as I said - I loved the Bach in the play and so mostly as soon as scenes were changing I looked straight up at the dancing lights, but for some reason I didn't look up immediately after this scene and I noticed Spike stayed kneeling where he was for quite some time before moving... which would fit I sort of feel with some sort of reverence.  I definitely don't think Spike was praying, but clearly even to Spike and to any of us science either can't explain literally everything or we can't feel it can explain it all (even if it is only due to our own inherent arrogance that we are all unique and special individuals and our thoughts, feelings and actions derive from something more profound than anything scientifically or culturally explicable.)  I mean Spike does talk of his own agency and free will.  And I think there is something very human in believing in something more than ourselves which it is very hard, when you really think upon and decide you believe it doesn't exist, to entirely let go of.

I also found it interesting that people who saw early showings of the play (Wow, I did not realise it had been running so many months!!!) really disliked Spike!  I mean, I didn't love him or anything, but as I say, for me he was the most likeable in the play.

Anyway, I rambled on.  After the play before I left the theatre, I heard a cast cheer backstage!  Aww..

I should say that I also liked that the play was witty.    Made me laugh.  I am sure there was one moment when the audience laughed when Damien didn't expect it as well (??)  He did a pause for the laughter...!!  I can't remember when it was now...?

Also, you know during the dinner party scene.  Do you think they had real champagne on the last performance?  I noticed Spike pour himself and drink several glasses while the rest of them were on their first little bit.  Of course, that'd also fit in retrospect with Spike's next actions, but I wondered if it was real, being the last night, teehee!!?!  I don't know whether to refer to Spike or Damien when I am talking about just literal character actions, haha!  Oh no!

Ahhh...  Anyway, sorry!  Shut up me!!!  

Hello littleimpulse and 

I like the theme song you choose, very Spike like

fifi;

...but I do believe that Damien has a stage presence which sort of demands your attention (even when fully clothed!). 

I so agree with you! He was dominating character in the play which makes that sort of illusion that he's almost all the time in stage, even though I'm not sure either did he spend most of the time on stage after Hilary. But my friend told me that he was really good and got her attention too, possibly because his ability to take the stage is captivating.

Kallie, I can't wait to hear about the last show!

Peeling away the layers through his potentcy to uncover something less solid on Spike is the hard problem... 

On the subject of Spike's theme song...

did anyone see the actual song playlist the cast had during THP, posted by the lovely Vera Chok on twitter?

This could be Spike's theme song!!! LOLOLOL!

"You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals,

so let's do it like they do on the discovery channel"

"I'm Mr. Coffee with an automatic drip"

even French waiter Hal makes an appearance!

explain Kallie.

You're not alone whimsy the topics are going mad in this section of the forum!

Which is a fabulous thing - so great to see passionate discussion on Damien's work!

To keep things less confusing, here's a topics list, so we are not doubling up on discussions!

Reviews here

POLL here

Science stuff here

Pics here

The THP Introduction / Index topic has also been updated.

It is so nice to be able to discuss a play like this with lots of people, I have to say.  And though I don't think any of us found it a perfect play, it is testament to something about it that we're finding so much to discuss I think!!?!  

Also, I tried to reply to so many people and got so confused I made all your quotes pink to try to see where I was!  Sorry!

domino wrote:

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We cannot know what Spike was doing when he was kneeling and hands together in the prayer position... it is clearly ambiguous but ... the actual gesture, especially in the context that he used it.. has no ambiguity about it... and its powerful significance is all the more powerful because of the context and the absolute conviction of Spike's position n the debate.... if he was appealing in anyway to anything..... makes it for me a profound moment.. all the more so because only the audience bear witness and Hilary (or any other character) does not.... he's an incredibly engaging character because of his conviction and passion... his arguments are potent and persuasive. But they are almost like armour.. inpenetrable... This moment added a layer of something else, its an indefinable moment but its a glimpse at something less solid. (and now someone needs to make a joke!)

---

The bit in bold is particularly interesting.  As a scientist, and a man with some degree of arrogance in terms of the importance and value of his own views, Spike is passionate and definite about his viewpoint, but of course no person is so simple as this.  I have the play text but haven't read it yet, but as I mentioned, I am sure there was the odd moment even Spike let slip some amount of belief in his own agency (I am thinking of when he was talking about fee will and how he could override his programming or something of the like.)  I'd love to see the NT Live version of the play now I've seen it on stage to discover how I'd find this moment in it (or indeed the whole thing!)  But as I say, though I didn't notice the prayer position, I did notice a reflective moment or a lingering at this point in the play on the part of Spike...  

Am I imagining it... are NT Live plays usually released on DVD as I am sure I heard somewhere that this would be in any case.  Does everyone know this?  Is this news?  Did I dream or imagine it.. I have no idea!?!  Ahem, aaanywaaaayy!!

fifi wrote:

and somehow the 'human' interaction got lost in the wordy debate - which was witty and interesting, but lacked any real 'drama' (I keep using that word, but it's the best word I can think of!)  

Should they seem like real people?  I don't think any piece of fiction requires the characters to seem like actual people - but you do need to identify or empathise on some level.  

I do find myself wondering what kept bringing Spike and Hilary together - he obviously enjoyed the intellectual debate...but was primarily interested in the sex.  She, apparently, was only interested in his help to achieve academic success - although I would guess that the reason she invited him to go travelling with her was intended to be a nod to the fact that she had started to unshackle herself from her past and look to the future.....presumably she really didn't have anyone else to ask to go with her.  And Spike had no intention of being shackled! 

I just quoted a little bit as I agree completely with you here fifi.  I suppose I found the play very interesting as the debate central to it is interesting (and the play was witty too!)  But in fact as I mentioned before, I felt the drama in the play sort of weakened Hilary's position and as such sort of weakened the play.  It is a strange conundrum: to be better, I would have needed to have felt more emotionally impacted upon by the play, yet the elements of the play that were supposed to be this side of it made it weaker for me.  Perhaps this is why some reviewers have said the play is emotionally lacking and others too sentimental?

I don't think characters in a play need to seem real either, but I think at best they ought to express something truthful about people and while I don't say that these characters don't do that: I think they do, perhaps the play is more concerned with intellectual debate than making us feel a human truth about ourselves?

To the last part of your post, I think Spike and Hilary's relationship wasn't ever too deep, but I wonder whether that intellectual debate and the desire to be proven right or to have the other concede was part of the draw for each?  (Not that either would ever persuade the other!!)

whimsyfox wrote:

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Kalafudra's Stuff blog

So when I say that this play is too sentimental, it’s not out of a Richard-Dawkins-dudebro-esque position like Spike is in (and what a wonderful portrayal of that position and the unlikeableness and douchery that comes with it). It’s that Hilary’s position is strong enough on its own that it doesn’t need some major coincidence/miracle to back it up – like when the child she gave up for adoption turns out to be her employer’s daughter and the most moral child in the study Hilary and her colleage Bo (Vera Chok) conducted. We don’t know what’s true anyway. The fun lies in debating the answers.

Performing Arts Hub

Her credibility as a character is further undermined by Vinall’s overblown performance. Her gestures, expressions and even voice projection are exaggerated almost to the point of melodrama. Perhaps this is exacerbated by the fact that with a filmed play, the camera gets closer than the audience ever would; however the rest of the cast is relatively understated. Damien Molony is charming as puckish Spike...

"..if Spike had been played by anyone else if he would have been lumped in with the rest.  "

 

---

 I have to be honest... I would have to get out a dictionary to attempt understand some of the first paragraph of Kalafunra's review *blush* *feels stupid* and I completely disagree REGARDING BACH!!!   However, I do agree with the bit you quoted.  I already mentioned it a few times, but for me Hilary's backstory explains her beliefs which then makes her position in the argument weaker, not stronger.  And at the same time, as we don't see her when she has to give up the child for adoption and all she ever does is talk about things..  and we can see things she has also gained from this event in her past... and maybe most of all because Hilary tells us that giving up her child wasn't really her decision at all - other people made the decision for her and then it just sort of happened... Well for me, all of this adds up to make it more of a plot-issue than an emotional issue.  Did I ever really feel for either Hilary or Cathy, torn from each other?  In all honesty, no... And then I sort of have to ask "then what is the point of this part of the story?"

I agreed with the second review you posted much more.

**how do I make a quote?!?!*

When at the play’s conclusion she retreats to university, to study philosophy, what are we to make of it? It’s almost as if she’s considered too good for this world of lies and compromise, but her behaviour up to this point has been more passive than saintly.

*end how do I make a quote...! Err...*  I will do quotes by others in green!

I quoted this because Hilary's taking this path confused me.  I didn't understand why she would.  Just to say that as a child my loves were Maths and Music which lead me as part of my studies to write about a composer who tried to compose using statistics (and thus, to make music with no emotion.)  Anyway, I can't say I know much about philosophy, but I discovered in writing this that this composer used Maths as much in a philosophical way as in a literal way, sort of trying to make music scientific, yet putting a lot of himself into the particular composition I looked at in depth as he made many choices of his own and did not strictly follow mere maths..  And when you looked into the composer's own history, as telling as the music were the reasons from his own past/experiences he wanted to compose in this way... Well I'm digressing, but I mention this as I know nothing of philosophy: my impression of philosophy was founded by a little I read on the philosophy of maths during this... but my impression was that whatever else it is, it is certainly less precise than science, so... maybe Tom Stoppard would be more drawn there, but Hilary is a scientist... would she really be drawn there?  Is she just admitting she is (or thinks she may be) wrong in her argument with this career move?  Because although mostly the play seems to side with Hilary, this choice and the way her research was compromised and thus incorrect both seemed to negate her viewpoint to me....

I have to say though that this...

"The Hard Problem wants to be a satire on the corruption of science by big business – I think. "

..had never occurred to me!! *blush*

On Olivia, I think she did an amazing job to pretty much carry the play.  In all honesty, I sort of agree with the second view to an extent as she was a bit "acting"-orly for me in her delivery.  This said *whisper* I heard someone say Damien didn't project enough as I was leaving the theatre.  In all honesty, to some degree I think things like this are going to depend on where you're sat.  In general, the real-er the acting the better.  I had a pretty good seat, happily.  But, for a person who happens to be sat in the seat right at the back in the corner who has a bad view of the stage, can't ever make out actor's faces, well then I suppose merely hearing can be an issue in a theatre!  Not that the theatre was massive.

Oh and I agree, a character definitely does not need to be likeable to be great.  In fact I have a lot of respect for those actors who can play an evil/bad character who has NO amount of likeability at all.  I feel like it shows they can completely submerge in a role if they are able to play a role in which the audience is supposed to hate them and let the audience hate the character totally - not have to give the character something for which the audience has empathy!!  It is my litmus test - I can love what an actor does, but only when I am convinced they do not need their audience to like them at all can I call a person great.  Not that anyone cares who I love or would call great anyway, hahaha!  But unlikeable characters can be fascinating!  Incidentally, in what I have seen him in, I love Jospeh Mawle whimsyfox in all I have seen him in.  I don't think I have ever seen him in a leading role but I would love to see him take the helm of something.  I can imagine he'd be great on stage too!!?!  Well, this is another digression.. Ooops!

Now I think on it, the last bit I quoted by you - I think probably Spike would have been lumped with the rest in lesser hands.  I think there was a reality to Damien's performance.

RPLovesIpswich It did make me smile to hear the cast cheer!  Awww!  And Kallie - I'm curious about the playlist too.. I don't get it.. I mean I see some sceince-ish songs, but... clearly I am slow!!!

Long and confusing is this post and thus I shall abruptly end it here!